Unimog Club UK
General Topics Forums => Unimog build threads => Topic started by: IanRubie on June 11, 2013, 10:46:12 am
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New belt to stop it squealing and slipping on the pump it should b fine then lol
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No, power steering is at the top of my list of jobs.
:D
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No, power steering is at the top of my list of jobs.
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You had any thoughts to chopping a few inches of the front yet mate?
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High speed yomping, there is an interesting concept in an old Mog :D
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They are a large UJ but there is a rule that says not to exceed 25/30deg crawling speeds aren't the real issue high speed yomping !! :D
Moose
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Thank you for that. Do you know what the safe working angle range for the torque tube U joint is?
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The back of a Unimog is better being sat down for stability, you guys concentrate to much on spring flex what you need to keep in mind is flex with your chassis this keeps the centre of gravity as low as possible Unimogs have very good clearance already keeping COG down should be your main goal.
Keep an eye on how you mount things to your chassis always three point mount, never drill holes or weld your chassis especially the front half.
Soft springs are great but you must keep an I on two things one is the angle of the u joint in the torque tube don't let the axle drop to far from the chassis this can be controlled by the shock absorbers as the factory do, but you want max travel and fit longer shocks, so you can fit a shock cord from the diff centre to the centre of chassis. The other is your bump stops keep them don't lose them and ideally the hydraulic ones are best.
Moose
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May be an idea just for flexibility could maybe spacer the back abit to equal it out will have to think about it some more
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Dave is a good person to deal with. He gives great customer service.
Ian
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Wow Dave still trading as LLama thats good to see. Started off roading with him over 20 years ago. Great memories!! :-)
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They were £174.54 inc delivery. I do not know the part number but they are 4" lift Jeep TJ rear springs and they came from Llama 4x4 http://www.llama4x4.com/page14.htm Your 404 is several hundred kg heavier than mine so will sit a bit lower.
Ian
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I've got to ask what did you pay for them and we're from will I b pushing it to ask for part numbers
thanks again keith
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The springs seem fine. It flexes fairly well and I do not appear to get any rubbing.
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How did it go with the springs
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Thanks, I'll have a look at the meet.
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Ive got power steering on my 404 think it's a newer mog steering box with the iveco daily pump lovely mate eill put up piccy if you want or just have alook at the meet
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The Vauxhall Corsa system seems popular.
A'right! :D
4th is good considering your odds! :D
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Sounds like a cracking rule to me. Try a bit harder next time and you may still win! :D
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After a weekend playing at Lincomb with the Land Cruiser Club I have decided that power steering needs to be promoted up my things to do list. Current thoughts are to go with an electric system for ease and cost. The Vauxhall Corsa system seems popular.
Flitting back to the Land Cruiser weekend briefly, I was close to winning the event but a "having a Mog" penalty was applied which halved my score :'( Even with my half score I still finished 4th out of about 20 vehicles. It is fun waiting 30 minutes for someone to winch a vehicle through an obstacle and to have them watch you drive the same obstacle while they are still stowing their recovery gear.
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I had thought about a pto winch but for the cost involved I don't think it is worth it. I can see for a working truck they would be a good solution but mine is a toy and the winch would only get occasional use.
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Looks tidy that Ian! Got to do the cage on the 416 yet, gonna be some serious modding there though we think :D
Have you thought about pto for the winches? You can fit a 411 pto, and you can't beat a mechanical system ! :)
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I see. It does still have the compressor. Having said that, I was thinking about removing the compressor and fitting an alternator in its place. I was going to use that alternator to charge a pair of batteries dedicated to a winch, or two, and an electric compressor. This solution seemed easier than setting up a hydraulic winch.
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No just thought if it still had compressor you could have modified the difflocks to operate separately. And you could blow your tires up after off-roading.
Moose
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Thanks for the comments, I cannot claim any of the fabrication was my own work. It was all done by a friend.
Did you save your air trailer braking system?
When I bought the truck there was a valve missing from the air system. It was near the back and all I had was a collection of pipes indicating something should be there. I have some of the bits, mainly pipes. Is there anything in particular that you want?
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Did you save your air trailer braking system?
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Nice work! Looking forward to seeing it in action at the meet.
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excellent fabrication work there mate very clean and sharp. looking good.
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Getting close to finishing this phase of the evolution. The deck is 18mm marine ply.
(http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae236/idrubie/Unimog/The%20bed%20and%20hoop/20140601_202520Large_zpsb23d6e31.jpg)
(http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae236/idrubie/Unimog/The%20bed%20and%20hoop/20140601_202549Large_zpsc38d08bc.jpg)
(http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae236/idrubie/Unimog/The%20bed%20and%20hoop/20140601_202506Large_zps28fc8651.jpg)
(http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae236/idrubie/Unimog/The%20bed%20and%20hoop/20140601_202604Large_zps70e2f48b.jpg)
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Some more work has been done to my 404.
Next stage was to make a framework to support the new bed and roll hoop.
(http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae236/idrubie/Unimog/The%20bed%20and%20hoop/20140518_200948Large_zpse9a244be.jpg)
(http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae236/idrubie/Unimog/The%20bed%20and%20hoop/20140518_145554Large_zps2dc644ce.jpg)
This has been welded to the existing radio body mounts to allow for chassis flex.
Next stage is to mock up a roll hoop. This is not intended to be a full race spec cage, just something to offer more protection than a canvas roof in the event of an opps moment.
(http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae236/idrubie/Unimog/The%20bed%20and%20hoop/20140528_191602Large_zpsedbcb80d.jpg)
This hoop will be doubled up and cross braced. The hoop is to be removable so that I can fit the 404 into my garage should a big maintenance job be needed.
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I normally get about 14mpg from the ML. It has about 350hp and I like using most of them whenever I can :D Towing the Mog this dropped to 10mpg and on the way back, with an empty trailer, it went to 17mpg. I could have improved on the 10mpg by going a bit slower.
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The only thing that stick in my mind after reading that lot is that you towed your 404 150 miles behind your 55 AMG? Would have been cheaper to have it taken there by helicopter wouldn't it?! :o
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I got all excited then, thought they might do one for the 411, could do with a new one and the cotton ones don't last forever.
And yeah, should be good to see it in the flesh :)
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Thanks.
Yes the canvas is new. It came from Expedition Imports in the US. It is a rubberised canvas material and is a lot more water tight than my old patchwork canvas top.
I have driven it off road with the new springs. All seemed good. I don't have any flex pictures with the new springs but you will see it at Lincomb.
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Looking good :)
Have you tried it offroad since you fitted the new springs?
And is that a new canvas, looks very shiny :P
We were contemplating a body frame for the cage on the trialer, but we're just gonna stick a space frame sort of thing on :)
The tyres look spot on on it :P
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My radio body is very rusty and I have deemed it beyond saving. Having said that, the pivot mounts and the central tube look to be in OK condition. With that in mind I have put the box on its side and cut out the mounting system. This is going to be used as a mount for a flat bed.
(http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae236/idrubie/Unimog/20140216_164148_zps29b9a528.jpg)
With the mount bolted back onto the chassis I now have this.
(http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae236/idrubie/Unimog/20140310_174147_zpsd84cb55f.jpg)
I have no fabrication skills for making a flat bed so a friend, who does, is doing the work for me. The downside is he lives about 150 miles away. Time for a road trip.
(http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae236/idrubie/ML55/20140321_172757Large_zps0271429f.jpg)
My ML55 had no problems towing the 404.
Now the radio box is no longer going to be remounted I have made the decision to remove the rear chassis overhang. Start with removing the cross member.
(http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae236/idrubie/Unimog/The%20chop/20140409_103017_zps5a4d1a6c.jpg)
Next the bracing
(http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae236/idrubie/Unimog/The%20chop/20140409_105927_zps037caa76.jpg)
Then shorten the chassis rails
(http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae236/idrubie/Unimog/The%20chop/20140414_145313_zps8015ba9a.jpg)
Next reattach the cross member
(http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae236/idrubie/Unimog/The%20chop/20140415_135549_zps9ae2a7da.jpg)
(http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae236/idrubie/Unimog/The%20chop/20140415_135603_zpsd1894e52.jpg)
Finally reattach the rear pivot in its new position
(http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae236/idrubie/Unimog/The%20chop/20140424_132202_zpsa2094542.jpg)
The last few pictures show the shock mount lowering plates I talked about further up the thread.
The next stage is going to be to make the frame for the flat bed and attach it to the pivots. The flat bed is going to have a simple roll hoop at the front in case I have an opps moment while off roading.
He is also going to do the 8 speed transmission conversion for me and fit a crawler box that happened to come up on eBay a little while ago :)
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Any progress on this Ian?
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You'd kaput your universal joint on the prop as the axle would drop causing the angle of the torque tube to become excessive.
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The back end of the 404 looks ideally suited to cones. Would need long travel shocks. I do not know what the limit of travel is at the gearbox end of the torque tube.
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i know this might sound stupid but what would happen if you ended up with dislocation cones on a mog?? ::) ;)
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I'll get back to you next week on that one. I want to test the modifications off road before I do anything permanent like sell the old springs :D
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how much would you want for the 404 front springs? we're thinking of them for the 416. Pm me if you want :)
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looking good! time to get those tyres on ;)
to add a youtube vid just put the link to the video in your post, it will automatically show, there's no need to put BB code :)
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The standard suspension on the Mog is designed to cope with the weight of the radio box so is quite stiff. Now my radio box is no longer there I need to find a way to help the suspension flex. My initial solution was to remove the rear inner helper springs and put a load of ballast in a box at the very rear of the chassis. While this certainly helped it did seem to make the rear prone to sliding on side slopes. I am guessing having 150kg of weight trying to head down hill will have that effect :lol:
I needed a plan B and decided to swap the springs. My goals for the swap were to give it a slight lift (I have some 39" tractor tyres sitting in the garage ;) ) and also make it much easier to flex the suspension.
First task was to remove the rear springs. Very easy to do, they are secured top and bottom with loads of access. I did not even have to remove the wheels, just removed the clamps, removed the top damper mount and jacked up the chassis until the spring came free.
Old spring against new
(http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae236/idrubie/Unimog/20130928_101351_zpsdf49ea24.jpg)
Popped the new spring in, refitted the clamps and lowered the chassis. Left the damper off at this stage.
Next stage was to remove the front springs. Same principle but this time I had to remove the wheel for access to the top clamp.
Old front spring (short) against old rear spring (long)
(http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae236/idrubie/Unimog/20130928_165008_zpsfd8ea305.jpg)
It was harder to get the "new" springs onto the front and I had to resort to using a pair of spring compressors. Easy from then on.
Now comes a bit of a health and safety nightmare. I wanted to see how much flex I now had but don't have a big ramp to drive up. Resorted to piling a load of weight onto a rear corner and jacking up the opposite front corner. Problem one, my jack does not go high enough. Solution (close your eyes if you are of a nervous disposition) was to balance an axle stand on the jack and then jack it up. The reason for this test was to work out what I had to do with the damper mounts (remember the dampers are still disconnected). Here is the resulting walk round.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNU5txeeE1g
The results showed me that I need to drop the rear damper top mounts by 3.75". I have made some plates to this but don't have any pictures at the moment.
For those interested in figures, with the old springs from the ground to the centre of the wheel arch was front 1110mm and rear 1120mm. With the new spring arrangement it is front 1155mm and rear 1155mm. So the front has gone up slightly more than the rear but nothing too bad.
Using spring rates and free \ fitted measurements I have worked out that each front spring is holding just over 500kg and each rear spring about 240kg.
I am going to an off road event next weekend so will see how it now performs.
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Any news on this Ian?
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My new rear springs have arrived. They have a free length of 410mm and a rate of 30.2mm / 100kg (if my maths is correct in converting 185 lb/inch). The existing rear springs, I have already removed the helper springs, are 350mm free length and 16.7mm / 100kg. I don't know what the sprung weight of the back end is, I am going to try and calculate it by measuring how much the springs are compressed compared to their free length. When I had it on a weigh bridge the back axle was 760kg.
Gut feeling says it will sit a bit higher but will be much easier to flex.
Hope to get them fitted this weekend.
Ian
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404's are cheap, and parts are easy to get, which is great for off roading. however i personally think the 406/416 is a better vehicle off road, especially the 416, more power ;) , and i believe the 416's flex more, if you ever see a well set up 406/416 off roading you'll be amazed how well they travel, follow the land like nobodies business. the factory have said in the past though that the ultimate off road chassis is the 1550 chassis.
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If a 404 would do what I need it to do I'd have one by now! I'm still determined though... I'll get one eventually! I'm still young, or at least not too old!
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Probably true for most things except cost, which is why I ended up with a 404 :D
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A 406 beats a 404 every time for me. But then I'm looking at it from a work point of view so I don't know which would be better for off roading?
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An M130 engine... ;)
No, no and once again no. Having said that the next off road event it is going to will be sand, that might show the need for more power.
I have not seen any M130s for sale in the UK but in the US they seem to be $2k upwards plus the "fun" of fitting them. Would the money not be better off going towards other equipment or even a 406 with hydraulics (bearing in mind it is an off road toy that spends very little time on road)?
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I'm still hearing the tune of an m130 engine coming on! 8) :D
... seats and belts or ... or ...
An M130 engine... ;)
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You're the only one who's ever made it up there - you could at least tart up your story a little and grab some credit for your exceptional driving skills! ;) :D
Not the only one, the first one ;) I am not big on tarting up stories, having it named after me was quite enough.
I'm still hearing the tune of an m130 engine coming on! 8) :D
I currently don't feel the need, it is an occasional toy. The money would be better spent on a winch or a roll cage or some decent seats and belts or ... or ...
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the relative lack of power did not seem to be a problem.
I'm still hearing the tune of an m130 engine coming on! 8) :D
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You're the only one who's ever made it up there - you could at least tart up your story a little and grab some credit for your exceptional driving skills! ;) :D
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Thanks. I did not do much really, just total faith the 80 would hold together combined with zero mechanical sympathy. I just sat there and steered the thing :D
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Now that really is cool! Well done!
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It did OK. The pictures were taken at a Land Cruiser club off road event that I help to organise. Unfortunately because I spend most of the event weekend running things I don't get much time to play, just a quick drive round while setting things up.
Here is a link to a thread about the weekend for those who are interested http://www.landcruiserclub.net/forums/showthread.php/49195-Lincomb-September-7th-8th The pictures start about page 13.
The ground clearance of the 404 certainly helped lots with one of the bog holes on the site, the relative lack of power did not seem to be a problem. I did not get the chance to try the big hill climb that is on site. If you read the above thread you will see reference to "the hill" otherwise known as Rubie Hill. It is called this because the land owner said it was an impossible climb without a winch, apparently people had been trying for years and nobody had done it. I was the first one to do it in my modified 80 series Land Cruiser. The hill was then named after me!
Ian
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looking good!! 8):)
it always gets me how much a mog can flex its chassis!! it caught the me out the first time brian tok me for a spin in the 411 :o
whats it like keeping up with the other lads you were with?
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I do like those pics 8)
I have heard about tj springs being used before, but never about sticking the rears on the front, look forward to hearing what you think :)
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Just to keep the development of my Mog in one place I will repost the pictures from the other thread that they are in.
(http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae236/idrubie/Lincomb%20Sept%202013%20-%20Mog/20130907_150102Medium_zps1dc42d5a.jpg)
(http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae236/idrubie/Lincomb%20Sept%202013%20-%20Mog/20130907_145952Medium_zps1d7b431b.jpg)
(http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae236/idrubie/Lincomb%20Sept%202013%20-%20Mog/20130907_145940Medium_zps5edfd8fe.jpg)
(http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae236/idrubie/Lincomb%20Sept%202013%20-%20Mog/20130907_145927Medium_zpse58b13dc.jpg)
Following a bit of research I have decided to have a spring swap round. The rear springs are going on the front and I have ordered some 4" lift Jeep TJ springs for the rear. This will hopefully make it easier for the 404 to flex its suspension now that it has so much less weight on its back. The new springs are due next week so I will post some before and after pictures.
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Good news about the MOT :) should go pretty quick with it being a 404 :P
At least youve got the right tyres ;)
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Thanks, it passed :) Got a few advisories but nothing serious. Now to put a few miles on it and fully test it out. Reached the dizzying speed of 60kph (about 37 mph) on the way back from the MOT.
Taking it to an off road event next weekend, hopefully will get some good pictures.
Ian
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Good luck! Always nice to have another mog on the road :)
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After much work I think that my 404 is finally ready for its MOT. It better be, it's booked for 9.30 tomorrow morning :D Finished all the work with 16.5 hours to spare, plenty of time by my normal standards.
Fingers crossed.
Ian
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I would just use a length of steel a suitable width for carrying your wheel (something like 9 inch) then have it go across the chassis with some folds to lift it away from the chassis, so that the wheel is stored horizontally. Remember to use existing bolt holes, as drilling a unimog chassis can cause it to tear, the problem is reduced when you dont have a lot of weight on it, but i still wouldnt risk it.
If i get the time, i will do a drawing to describe what i mean.
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I have been thinking about putting some weight over the back wheels. The isometrically mounted thing you mentioned in another thread has me thinking though. If I want to strap my spare wheel over the back axle, how do I do it? Conventionally I would just bolt a frame between the chassis rails and away you go. I will have to crawl under my radio box and have a closer look at the pivot mount.
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Por-15 also do a cleaning fluid for tanks, the sealant was just an example :)
I would stick some weight on the back for when you take it off road, this will allow the chassis to flex more meaning youll get better articulation, something a lot of people forget, it also frees the bushes up. youtube has a lot of videos where there's no weight on the mog, so they dont flex.
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Thanks. The tanks do not leak, they just had a nasty liquid in them. Don't know what it was but it did not smell like petrol and had the consistency of engine oil. I have ordered the gaiter and a few other things from Westfield 4x4.
The initial plan is leave it fairly standard, just get it road legal. I will then see for myself what it is like off road compared to my old Land Cruiser. If I like it I will then look at modifying it. Things on that list include moving the fuel tanks and battery box, much softer springs so it will flex without the weight of the box, roll cage, fix the rust . . . . . If I don't like it the box will go back on and I will pick a different project.
Ian
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Tidy looking chassis youve got yourself :) body work isnt always everything :P
For the tank i would highly recommend por-15 http://www.por15.com/ weve used it before and its amazing stuff, we had a tank that if you held it up to the sky and looked through the filler pipe, it was like looking at a night sky full of stars, so we stuck some por-15 sealant in it and it was sorted :)
What do you plan to do with the body?
you can get the rubber gaiter from any dealer, a new one is around 50-60 quid i think.
Have you thought about moving the tanks and battery box on top of the chassis for belly clearance?
Keeping the standard engine?
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Here are some pictures of my newly acquired 404. Body work has a few rust patches but the chassis is solid.
(http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae236/idrubie/Unimog/20130505_182919_zps7ea606c3.jpg)
(http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae236/idrubie/Unimog/20130505_182612_zpsd25ca893.jpg)
(http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae236/idrubie/Unimog/20130505_182656_zps1313d9bf.jpg)
The previous owner told me that the fuel tanks had contaminated fuel in them. He just bypassed them and ran from a boat outboard tank in the cab. Also the choke knob had seized so he ran it with out engine covers so he could reach the carb from the drivers seat and set the choke directly.
I have replaced the choke cable, brand new genuine Mercedes was only £12. Job two was to remove the box from the back to make it more suitable for my planned usage and make access much easier for planned maintenance. To do this I made a large frame out of scaffold poles with a couple of chain blocks at the top.
(http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae236/idrubie/Unimog/20130602_192740_zps3fe3dd58.jpg)
The box came off fairly easily, only 9 bolts, a few cables and the rear lights to disconnect.
(http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae236/idrubie/Unimog/20130608_103852_zpsf824bf84.jpg)
(http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae236/idrubie/Unimog/20130608_104506_zps966a8c60.jpg)
The next jobs will be replace a split torque tube gator, clean the fuel tanks - and replace the link tube and in tank filters, fit the rear lights to the chassis - they were attached to the box and finally make some rear mud guards.
Ian