Author Topic: 411 roll cage (Read 5619 times)

ijp · « **on:** November 26, 2014, 11:03:38 am »

What are peoples thoughts on this?

I feel very vulnerable when driving my 411 as it doesn't have any sort of roll cage so half your body sticks out the top of the cab and would be completely unprotected if it rolled. I know rolling it is unlikely but I have had the back wheels lift of the ground when driving into a river that was deeper than expected and as my kids drive my Mog I would like to make it safer.

So I guess my options are:

Fit a roll bar to the chassis behind the cab.
Fit a roll bar into the pickup bed
Fit a roll cage in the cab
Fit a roll cage around the cab

The biggest issue I see is making sure the design allows the chassis to flex so the option I prefer at the moment is to put a cage inside the cab and secured to the cab.

I was thinking of a 40mm box section made into a roll bar just behind the seats, a bar going forward from the top corners to just behind the top of the windscreen, a bar running behind the top of the windscreen and a bar on each side coming down to just in front of the doors and maybe a bar joining the bottom of the frame together running horizontally just inside the doors. This would almost completely enclose the driver and passenger.

I know tube would be better than box but I have no way of bending tube and an angular frame might suit the styling of the 411.

What do people think of this plan?

IJP

Shaunymog 007 · « **Reply #1 on:** November 27, 2014, 05:49:53 pm »

Hi

I think one in the cab, or one on the bed just behind the cab will be fine.
As you say, round tube would be better, but the square section should be fine.

If you do it to follow the cab lines, it will look more at home, and like you said, suit the shape of the 411.
When you bolt it to the floor, use spreader plates, one on top (welded to the frame) and the other below, so that this sandwiches the floor, as the race and rally cars do.
Use decent grade bolts, and also make sure the floors are in good condition, no point in having a cage that will rip out the floor if you roll.
And lastly (sorry I appologise that I don't know your skill level) but make sure it's a good weld, I have seen cages break apart at the joints, (lack of good weld penetration)
A cage that falls apart can cause more damage to you!

I will be fitting a cage to my 404 when she comes home, I have use of my friends bending machine, that makes life a little easier.

Once you have done it, show us the results.

Cheers

Rabbit Recovery · « **Reply #2 on:** November 27, 2014, 08:09:59 pm »

Hi IJP

I would serious have a look around for someone who has a mandrel bender as they are getting more and more common these days. If you choose a size of tube that they already use they will have the tooling. Bending the parts then becomes a quick process if you have worked out the angles and lengths. Look for seamless tubing as well, tube with a seam splits under load. In the cab would be my personal preference as it is t protect the occupants nothing else.

I speak from personal experience as in my youth I rolled a Land Rover end over end 6 times after a failed hill climb and got away with only bruising. I had (or my dad and I had) fitted a roll bar in the back of the vehicle with sandwich plates down to the chassis (not for mogs but as Shaunymog says sandwich either side of the floor, rally car style) which we had purchased from a reputable company for £150. IT SAVED MY LIFE! This was not a serious off road event just a day out with friends and the vehicle was a write off. When it was put back on its wheels the chassis had folded in front of the roll bar mounts and dipped by 4 to 6 inch, when a line was drawn from the roll bar to the front my head was completely above it, however when it stopped rolling I got out and walked away (ok I ran but you know what I mean). That night in the pub I was covered head to foot in bruises but I was alive. Without the roll bar I would have been dead.

For some obscure reason after that I started racing competitively off road (as a navigator) in various Land Rovers and other caged vehicles. After many a tumble I know opt for a cab structure or a cage on any vehicle.

The other thing is if you do cage it you must fit seat belts otherwise you end up between the cage and the ground. The net results you can imagine and I have witnessed the worst

ijp · « **Reply #3 on:** December 01, 2014, 01:59:43 pm »

Thanks Shaunymog and Rabbit Recovery, will take that advice on board and look around to find someone with a bender. Before the cage I am going to do some repairs to the cab and fabricate a new load bed. Stripped of the old bed and most of the fittings from the cab over the weekend ready to lift the cab off. Once off I will have it blasted so I can see what repairs are required. As you guys say the cab needs to be in good condition if the cage is fastened to it.

Shaunymog 007 · « **Reply #4 on:** December 01, 2014, 10:28:04 pm »

Another option you have, finish off the work on the cab etc, get it nice and strong
Then drive over here in the summer, (its nice to work in the sunshine) bring some tubing and I will help you make the cage, as I have access to my friends pipe bender!

I have made a few for various off roaders, they usually just opt for scaffold tubing, nice strong and seamless!
Cheers
Shaun

ijp · « **Reply #5 on:** December 02, 2014, 07:48:32 am »

Thanks for the offer Shaunymog. That would be an interesting trip at 25 mph.

Got most of the cab stripped down last night. It is a great thing to work on, everything so far has come apart easily, much nicer working on this 46 year old Unimog than the 14 year old Land Rover I had until recently. Only fiddly bits so far are the little dash board lights and the 2 main bolts that secure the cab to the chassis.

Will · « **Reply #6 on:** December 02, 2014, 07:17:18 pm »

Shaunymog you must have different scaffolding over there? UK scaffolding tube is certainly not safe to use as a roll cage. Yes it would save you if you gently rolled onto your side but it is not suitable for a rollcage.

I would look at using 'blueband' steam pipe it's approved for landrover cages, can be push bent and is cheaper than cds/ cost effective.

If your tying your cage to the cab make sure you add some floor level tie bars and endure seats and seat belts are bolted to the cage also.

Will.

Rabbit Recovery · « **Reply #7 on:** December 02, 2014, 07:52:36 pm »

Cracking progress on your Mog there IJP, as Will says UK scaffold is not a good idea as it splits. Blue band is a good idea. I have raced in many a vehicle with blue band cage and still have a selection of lengths in the workshop from projects. Mainly of the LR variety.

moose · « **Reply #8 on:** December 03, 2014, 09:11:09 pm »

The 411 wasn't designed for serious off road work the short wheelbase Unimogs are scary 60% of the weght over the front axle the short 411s are bad for this.fit a strong single loop in the cab like they did from the factory, put some weight on the back and don't show the kids the difflocks better to spin wheels than go to far. Enjoy the 411.
Moose

Shaunymog 007 · « **Reply #9 on:** December 04, 2014, 11:45:37 am »

the belgians eat waffles so they can lift the scaffold pole!

will and paul, i do agree with you, scaffold is not suitable for competition use, but i have made many full cages, space frames for the off roaders in times gone by (probably due to the fact they got the tube for free in those days) and i have seen many roll overs, not just gentle ones and the tube never budged! it has thick wall!

as you say blueband steam pipe is better, and if it is for competition use, there is a big rule book on what to use and how its made and fixed etc. (i support a friends rally hobby, so when building his car it was a regular read)

ijp, belgium is quite flat so you will be ok at that speed!

Double Gloucester · « **Reply #10 on:** December 04, 2014, 06:01:37 pm »

I have a hydraulic bender for blue/red band tube if anyone wants to borrow one. I do not have enough time for my own mog so dont ask if I could bend the tube

ijp · « **Reply #11 on:** December 08, 2014, 07:52:49 am »

Thanks for all the advice everyone, much appreciated.

Finished the strip down over the weekend and have the cab ready to be sand blasted and repaired. Once I get the cab away I will take the rolling chassis to a steam cleaner for a wash down. Depending how it comes up will determine what I do with it next, don't really want to strip it down any more but I do want to give the chassis a coating of something to freshen it up. What do people recommend?

Double Gloucester · « **Reply #12 on:** December 08, 2014, 07:52:23 pm »

Jotun Conseal is the best chassis paint i have used.

Unimog Club UK

Author Topic: 411 roll cage (Read 5619 times)

ijp

411 roll cage

Shaunymog 007

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Rabbit Recovery

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ijp

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Shaunymog 007

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ijp

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Will

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Rabbit Recovery

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moose

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Shaunymog 007

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Double Gloucester

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ijp

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Double Gloucester

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