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Author Topic: Time for some serious thought - 406 vs 416, 4 or 6 speed?  (Read 5412 times)

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Time for some serious thought - 406 vs 416, 4 or 6 speed?
« on: November 06, 2013, 07:40:09 pm »
Right. For the first time in my rather dreamy life I am actually coming close to the possibility of getting my hands on a mog, and I need to think about it a bit.

First up, long or short wheelbase? 406 is easier to store as it's shorter, and I have to admit I like the look better. But then the 416 can carry more stuff, handles better at speed on the road and is more stable off of it too. Pros and cons of both models in the opinion of others would be much appreciated.

How much room is there between the cab and a standard short tipper body on a 416? It looks a bit silly so may need filling with a tool box or the body changing. Can the full length body option still mount and 3 way tip on the short X frame?

Then there's the question of gearboxes. 4 speed or 6? The 4 speed offers more reverse options, and you don't use 1st and 2nd in general 6 speed driving anyway. Is it useful to be able to reverse faster? Just how slow is the reverse on a 6 speed? Cascade must just be a bonus on either? How does cascade even work as I've looked in the manual but I'm still a bit baffled!

How easy is it to source things like PTO shafts? It seems the box is often there but missing shafts... No idea why, apart from the worry that they may be rare or expensive? Will they be a complete mare to find for the longer one? The 416 seems more rare than the 406?

Sorry for all the questions. When a purchase gets more real I start to panic that I may not have thought of something which may cause me bother later! ::)
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Re: Time for some serious thought - 406 vs 416, 4 or 6 speed?
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2013, 07:59:20 pm »
If I had the choice I'd have 416. If I'm not mistaken 4 speed doesnt have cascade. No cascade means no true 1000rpm which most decent Chippers need. There is another way to get it but its difficult doing. Shafts for 406 are 'common' I'm getting front pto off Ac price this month as for a 416  :-\ with reguards to reverse speed the 6 speed reverse is quick enough (almost car speed)
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Re: Time for some serious thought - 406 vs 416, 4 or 6 speed?
« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2013, 08:22:09 pm »
I'd assume that the front shaft is the same for both? That would be the sensible way to do it anyway! Surely all the important bits are the same distance from the front on both?! Just the back bits are further away....
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Re: Time for some serious thought - 406 vs 416, 4 or 6 speed?
« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2013, 08:31:07 pm »
ive already given my view on the wheel base options, its all down to what you require  ;) and also on the pros and cons:

416:
more stable off road
larger load space
sometimes came with high ratio axles
better road handling

406:
more maneuverable
easier to store
look better  :D
sometimes came with high ratio hubs (but rare)

1150L 416:
longer than the 1100 416

Yep, the full body can still tip on the spider frame from a 406 on a 416 (they use the same spider frame) and yeah, no reason why you couldnt fit a tool box, its quite a common thing to do.

the 4 speed box gives the bonus of being able to reverse quite fast, they were used on quite a lot of rail road mogs, 4 speed splitters are worth a bit more than 6.
6 speed splitters give a broader range of gears, id recommend a 6 speed for you.
cascade can be fitted to either box, and is of course a bonus, hopefully this helps :)
http://www.unimogclubuk.com/tutorials/u800u900u1100-gear-levers/

sourcing pto shafts is easy, as you can go to any good prop shaft maker and get them made up, finding the end bearing blocks, and the center bearing block, is the hard bit. 900's and 600's share the same bearing blocks.

and yes, the 416 is a rarer machine than the 406, people seem to chop them up for the 406's :(
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Re: Time for some serious thought - 406 vs 416, 4 or 6 speed?
« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2013, 08:45:28 pm »
If the spider and X frame atre the same then that's really good. I think U1100's look much nicer with a full length body on the back. The short one looks silly.

Talking of short bodies - have you got one for your Doka? Vos have got an extra short body in stock if it's of any interest to you? Don't suppose they're that common?
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Re: Time for some serious thought - 406 vs 416, 4 or 6 speed?
« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2013, 08:56:33 pm »
yeah, acp have one at the moment as well, but weve got the crane on ours and hardly ever take it off :P , we did need one for the black mog a while ago though, and had to modify one, then 2 turn up at the same time! typical!  ::)

P.S. the black beast is back on the road! was towing the mueller today :D
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Re: Time for some serious thought - 406 vs 416, 4 or 6 speed?
« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2013, 09:00:14 pm »
Cool. I like that one, my favourite I think. Was it an easy repair in the end?
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Re: Time for some serious thought - 406 vs 416, 4 or 6 speed?
« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2013, 09:09:23 pm »
just fitted another axle (with it being an f type axle, the parts were quite hard to find) and put our original hubs on the end , as they have brand new brakes on them :) , oh also fitted new diff lock seals as youre better off doing them whilst the axles off :)
finding the time was the hard bit  :-\
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Re: Time for some serious thought - 406 vs 416, 4 or 6 speed?
« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2013, 09:10:56 pm »
F type? ???
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Re: Time for some serious thought - 406 vs 416, 4 or 6 speed?
« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2013, 09:16:20 pm »
early axles, different design, the way to tell is the diff casing on an f type axle is 135 mm, on a g type axles its 145 mm :)
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Re: Time for some serious thought - 406 vs 416, 4 or 6 speed?
« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2013, 09:18:31 pm »
I'll have to get the tape measure out tomorrow night. Going to have a look at it then hopefully.
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Re: Time for some serious thought - 406 vs 416, 4 or 6 speed?
« Reply #11 on: November 06, 2013, 09:33:08 pm »
what year is it?
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Re: Time for some serious thought - 406 vs 416, 4 or 6 speed?
« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2013, 09:50:43 pm »
'78 according to the reg number.
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Re: Time for some serious thought - 406 vs 416, 4 or 6 speed?
« Reply #13 on: November 06, 2013, 09:57:47 pm »
should be g type then ;)
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Re: Time for some serious thought - 406 vs 416, 4 or 6 speed?
« Reply #14 on: November 06, 2013, 10:04:57 pm »
Another positive... Good to know.
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